(no subject)

[hnpcc]

Dear BBC , The Age et al,

Dictionary.com defines woman as:

wom·an ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wmn)
n. pl. wom·en (wmn)

1. An adult female human.
2. Women considered as a group; womankind: “Woman feels the invidious distinctions of sex exactly as the black man does those of color” (Elizabeth Cady Stanton).
3. An adult female human belonging to a specified occupation, group, nationality, or other category. Often used in combination: an Englishwoman; congresswoman; a saleswoman.
4. Feminine quality or aspect; womanliness.
5. A female servant or subordinate.
6. Informal.
1. A wife.
2. A female lover or sweetheart. See Usage Note at lady. See Usage Note at man. See Usage Note at person.

It defines female as:

fe·male ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fml)
adj.
1.
a. Of or denoting the sex that produces ova or bears young.
b. Characteristic of or appropriate to this sex; feminine.
c. Consisting of members of this sex. See Usage Note at lady.

2. Botany.
a. Designating an organ, such as a pistil or ovary, that functions in producing seeds after fertilization.
b. Bearing pistils but not stamens; pistillate: female flowers.

3. Having a recessed part, such as a slot or receptacle, designed to receive a complementary male part: the female section of an electrical outlet.


n.

1. A member of the sex that produces ova or bears young.
2. A woman or girl.
3. Botany. A plant having only pistillate flowers.

One is a NOUN and one is an ADJECTIVE goddammit!!!!!!!!!

They are NOT interchangeable. So if you could kindly cease and desist from using them as such ("Iraqi woman prisoners", "woman police officer" and "woman judge" being just three recent examples that come to mind) I'd be much obliged.

Otherwise I'm going to have to start using man interchangeably with male. GRRRRRR

Comments

[frieda.livejournal.com]

Well, female is a nound and an adjective, so technically "one is a noun and one is an adjective" isn't strictly correct. It depends upon context.

Besides, if it's any consolation, Chambers English Dictionary also says:

woman n. an adult female of the human race [...] - pl. women. -- Also adj.

=)

[hnpcc]

It's still incorrect usage. Again MHO. ;-)

I mean, it's not like you get "man nurse", "man secretary" or "man police officer" so why the hell use 'woman' when you mean 'female'?!?!

Bah humbug. I've no idea why this pisses me off so much but it does. And once you start noticing it, it's everywhere.

[frieda.livejournal.com]

once you start noticing it, it's everywhere

That rather suggests that the problem is you, and everyone else is happy with the word being used in that manner. The thing about language is that it changes over time. Language is a fluid thing, and the rules of one generation don't necessarily hold even within their own lifetime. The OED even says that splitting infinitives is OK, these days.

What I find far more irritating than "woman nurse", are things like "tonite", "while U wait" and "BBQ". And people that use shit fucking abbreviations in SMS messages, IRC, emails and even handwritten missives. I h8 it!

[hnpcc]

While I agree that language is fluid it still doesn't follow that that usage is right. I think it annoys me because it subconsciously reminds me of "woman driver" - there's an assumption there of inferiority which (for me at least) is carried over into "woman police officer" etc. You don't notice nurses being described as "woman nurses" because it's assumed - and when the nurses are male they're not ever referred to as "man nurses", or even frequently "male nurses" these days. They're just called nurses. I don't see why they have to put "woman" in front (particularly when 'female' is correct anyway) of things like "police officer" (and even less so when the accompanying photo makes it pretty damn clear that she's a woman. Sheesh.) Half the time the name makes it clear what gender the person is, and when it doesn't (Chris being a prime example of a gender confusing name!) then yeah, state by all means the person's gender but use the correct freaking word.

(I did mention at the start that this pisses me off, didn't I? And that I was ranting? Good. ;-))

Things like BBQ don't worry me to be honest - that's so common here I don't notice it. 'U' and 'tonite' - seriously, 1 letter shorter? Just learn to spell for Christ's sake - do irritate me. The abbreviation thing varies with me - I still use a lot of the IRC abbreviations, but I don't SMS that much so I don't know many of the newer ones. But in handwritten notes - yeah, they bug me. I'm getting old I think. :-)

[shnetti.livejournal.com]

You'd think that would be the kind of thing I could get a bee in my bonnet about too, but I'm usually too busy getting stroppy about another popular but incorrect usage.

For example, a politician crapping on about women's issues, then it turns out he means childcare.

HELLO -- "woman" does not equal "mother".

Thank you. Grrr.

[hnpcc]

Woman may not equal mother, but neither does childcare frequently equal both parents. Unfortunately childcare does come under "women's issues" when it should by rights come under "parental issues" - or probably "childcare issues". Unfortunately until men[1] start taking some responsibility for their progeny and agitating for childcare instead of assuming it's a "woman's issue" it won't.

And just incidentaly I wish John Howard would bugger back off into the 1950s where he belongs. I haven't felt this shitty about an election since Kennett got the flick. Which is the one straw of hope I'm holding on to at this point. That and Howard will fall through a time hole and find himself back in the world of black and white television. Bah, humbug.

[1]broad generalisation. I know there are many committed fathers out there who do agitate for childcare. Unfortunately they're still in the minority.

But wait, there's more!

[barrington.livejournal.com]

It doesn't stop at woman: the BBC article is headlined "Iraq woman prisoner 'to be freed'". Iraq is also a noun, not an adjective! It should be "Female Iraqi prisoner" or maybe "Iprisoned Iraqi woman".

And I thought you could trust the BBC.

Re: But wait, there's more!

[hnpcc]

And I thought you could trust the BBC.

Ever since the BBC ran a lead story on one of the Spice Girls breaking her leg I have been unable to take them seriously.

And no, I can't remember what year or which one. But it totally eroded any confidence I had in them as a news service.